REMINDER: The historic, first-ever “Roswell vs. Washington UFO Debate” will be held in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico this Friday night, Oct. 10, 2025, and here’s how you can live-stream it:
This event will begin at 6 p.m. PDT (7 p.m. MDT), and will be live-streamed on YouTube here, as well as on The Maury Island Incident, B-Town Blog and Waterland Blog Facebook pages (to get a notification of when it’s live, just “Like” one of those FB pages).
The debate – moderated by Dr. Tim Mounce, co-host of the acclaimed “All Things Unexplained” podcast – will explore the rival histories of 1947’s “Summer of the Saucers,” including Roswell and two Washington state sightings:
- The Maury Island incident on June 21, 1947
- Kenneth Arnold’s June 1947 UFO sighting over Mt. Rainier
Party at Marina Mercantile
Our friends (and Advertisers) at the Marina Mercantile in Des Moines will be holding a free live-streaming party this Friday, starting at 5 p.m., with the debate itself starting at 6 p.m., and with aliens stepping in for Spooky Halloween fun for one October night.
Sign Up Here to RSVP
According to organizers, the debate will jointly address questions and controversies over the legacy of 1947’s UFO incidents. A joint statement (included below) said the disagreements focus on the “facts, circumstances, and competing historical legacies and pop-culture significance” of Roswell, Arnold’s Mount Rainier sighting, and Maury Island, which featured the origins of the so-called “Men in Black.”
More information about the event is available at www.quadrant45.com/roswell-vs-washington and on Facebook.
About the Debate Teams
Team Washington:
- Steve Edmiston: Business and entertainment lawyer, indie filmmaker, and co-founder of the Men in Black Birthday Bash Festival (MIBBB Fest). He is a frequent speaker on the Maury Island Incident, J. Edgar Hoover’s UFO files, and the origins of the “Men in Black.” His credits include the award-winning short film The Maury Island Incident and multiple screenplays. Edmiston has appeared on Coast to Coast AM, Ancient Aliens, and at history conferences nationwide.
- Vince Ynzunza: Videographer, researcher, and creator of the YouTube series Pacific NorthWEIRD, documenting the Northwest’s bizarre history and paranormal lore. He co-produces the Chehalis Flying Saucer Party, honoring Kenneth Arnold’s June 24, 1947 Mt. Rainier sighting — the event that launched the modern UFO era.
- Jason Mattson: Executive Director of the Lewis County Historical Museum in Chehalis, WA, and co-producer of the Chehalis Flying Saucer Party. Mattson works to preserve regional history while also spotlighting the legacy of Kenneth Arnold’s sighting. His projects include historic preservation, design, and community events that explore the quirky and the profound in Pacific Northwest history.
Team Roswell:
- Paul T. Semones: Forensic engineer, former Navy civil servant, professor, and published author. After years investigating car crashes, he now investigates “the biggest crash of all” — Roswell. Semones operates The Roswell UFO Tour, guiding visitors through Roswell’s historic UFO sites. Active on X as @PaulTiberius, he regularly shares new research on the Roswell case.
- Toby Martinez: Investigative reporter and Design Editor for the Roswell Daily Record. With 20+ years covering UFOs, he has worked with The X-Files, Expedition Unknown, the History Channel, Discovery, and Vice. He co-hosts Marked by the Sky on KGRA Digital Broadcasting and is co-author of Rendlesham Signals from the Threshold: The Hidden Race for UAP Technology. Martinez is also co-directing the documentary Rendlesham: Beyond the Lights.
Neutral Debate Site
Organizers selected a neutral site for the Oct. 10 debate: Truth or Consequences, New Mexico, at the Truth or Consequences Brewing Company. Organizers seized upon the wordplay in concluding the Joint Statement:
“These important questions, and others of less importance, will be debated on October 10, 2025, in the neutral territory of Truth Or Consequences, NM, at the Truth or Consequences Brewery.
“On one side, UFO-UFO, representing Washington State’s role in kickstarting the modern UFO phenomenon.
“And on the other side, Roswell, the town that took that phenomenon to the bank.
“The winner will know the truth.
“The loser, consequences.“
Here’s the Joint Statement:
A JOINT STATEMENT BETWEEN WASHINGTON STATE’S UFO-UFO (UNITED FESTIVALS OF UFOs) AND THE RESIDENT RESEARCHERS OF ROSWELL, NM
“The undersigned representatives of UFO-UFO of Washington State, and UFO researchers of Roswell, NM, have agreed, following extensive negotiations, to jointly and publicly address long-standing questions and controversies (some might say, grievances) relating to the history, mythology, and legacy of the 1947 Summer of the Saucers, specifically including incidents (both famous and infamous) occurring in Roswell, New Mexico, Mt. Rainier Washington, and Maury Island, Washington. To do so, the parties will hold a public debate on October 10, 2025, in Truth or Consequences, New Mexico.
“This Joint Statement is provided to frame this debate. We hope the world is watching.
“WHAT WE CAN AGREE ON
“1. culture:
“The summer of 1947 gave the world three iconic UFO incidents that forever altered popular
• “On June 21, 1947, marine scavenger Harold Dahl and crew spotted six unidentified donut-shaped objects flying near Tacoma, WA. One of the objects appeared to be in distress and expelled molten slag onto the eyewitnesses, burning the arm of Harold’s son and killing their dog. The next day, a mysterious man dressed head-to-foot in black appeared on Dahl’s doorstep and issued a warning not to tell anyone what he had seen or bad things would happen. Dahl ignored the warning. Bad things happened, ultimately including the tragic deaths of two Army-Air Force intelligence officers while investigating Dahl’s sighting. And the world first learned of the mysterious Men In Black.
• “On June 24, 1947, businessman and pilot Kenneth Arnold flew out of the airport in Chehalis, WA on his way back home to Boise, ID. On the way, Arnold spotted nine unidentified aircraft near Mt. Rainier flying in echelon formation at a speed of 1,700 mph – a speed unheard of at the time. Later, when asked about how these mysterious objects flew, Arnold described their flight movement, saying that “they flew erratic, like a saucer if you skip it across the water” – and at that moment the term “flying saucer” became part of the American lexicon.
• “In early July 1947 (although some will insist the correct date is in June), an unidentified flying object crashed on a ranch operated by Mack Brazel near Corona, NM, leaving a debris field of unknown metallic material along its trajectory to a distant point of rest.
“Upon hearing of this report, intelligence officers from the nearby Roswell Army Air Field visited the site to collect some of the wreckage. The base then issued an extraordinary press release, encapsulated in the local Roswell newspaper’s headline: “RAAF Captures Flying Saucer On Ranch in Roswell Region.” Within a matter of hours, higher military authorities refuted the story, claiming that the debris was from a crashed weather balloon. Since then, “Roswell” has become synonymous with a government conspiracy to conceal the truth of extraterrestrial visitation to the planet – and arguably has become the most famous UFO-incident in history.
“2. We recognize that UFOs have become big business. Every other day it seems a new whistleblower emerges to expose some deep-dish conspiracy that the U.S. government possessestechnology or biological specimens from crashed UAPs. Extraterrestrial characters – from the adorable to the atrocious – grace our multiplexes, smart TVs, and handheld devices. The image of the “flying saucer” is every bit as recognizable as the Golden Arches or Mickey Mouse.
“3. Our UFO-laden popular culture (including depictions of the “Men in Black”) is directly descended from the events of 1947 – with very little change in terminology, look-and-feel, and storytelling. While much of 1947’s remarkable UFO history has been accurately captured and shared, much has not, and there are significant areas of disagreement.
“4. Central to our disagreements are the facts, circumstances, and competing legacies of Roswell, Kenneth Arnold’s Mt. Rainier sighting, and Maury Island.
WHERE WE DIFFER
“1. Who’s to blame (or credit) for launching the 1947 Summer of the Saucers? Is it the businessman pilot who first brought these objects to the public attention? Is it the unfortunate Maury Island eyewitness who failed to heed the warning of the Man In Black? Or could it be the long shadow of Roswell, obscuring all that has come before or since?
“2. Do the current legacies of these three 1947 events accurately reflect their true historical and mythological importance?
“3. Why did the original World UFO Day change from June 24 (Mt. Rainier) to July 2 (Roswell), and who are the unidentified people of WUFUDO that claim to have caused that change?
“4. Was the assertion of “hoax” in relation to Maury Island in fact a false-flag operation endorsed by J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI?
“WHAT NOW?
“These important questions, and others of less importance, will be debated on October 10, 2025, in the neutral territory of Truth Or Consequences, NM, at the Truth or Consequences Brewery.
“On one side, UFO-UFO, representing Washington State’s role in kickstarting the modern UFO phenomenon. And on the other side, Roswell, the town that took that phenomenon to the bank.
“The winner will know the truth.
“The loser, consequences.
“EFFECTIVE June 6, 2025:
• Paul T. Semones – Roswell, NM
• Toby Martinez – Roswell, NM
• Jason Mattson – Chehalis, WA
• Vince Ynzunza – Tacoma, WA
• Steve Edmiston – Des Moines, WA”
